Provident Metals Defaults On Delivery Of RCM 10 oz. Bars

Just remember, when it comes to buying and claiming ownership on gold and silver bullion, possession isn’t 9/10ths of the law, it’s 11/10ths of the law.  – Investment Research Dynamics

A good friend of mine scraped together $150 and sent a check to Provident Metals in order to buy one of the Royal Canadian Mint 10-oz bars they were advertising as being in stock. He used Provident for the time ever because they advertised the lowest premium on this bar.  He was told by Provident that he had to wait until his check cleared and then wait another five days before they would process his order.

I can understand the first requirement but I knew something didn’t smell right when he told me the second condition.  So up to this point they’ve had his money for about 10 days and have not processed his order or sent him an update.

Today – ironically one day after he told me the above story – he gets this email note from Provident:

The Royal Canadian Mint has suspended RCM 10 oz Silver bar sales indefinitely. Due to a sudden surge in demand for RCM products, there has been an unforeseen production and allocation error by the Royal Canadian Mint. We will not be receiving our shipment of RCM 10 oz Silver bars. This coupled with an internal inventory discrepancy has effected a few of our customer orders. We have been working diligently each day to secure RCM bars through various sources for our customers at any cost. Unfortunately, we were unable to fulfill some orders, including yours.

We are committed to each of our customers, and we would like to discuss with you how to reconcile this dilemma. Please call our Customer Service Department (800-313-3315 option 4) at your earliest convenience.

I highlighted the section in red and underlined it for point of emphasis.  That is a pile of bullshit that Provident has served up to people who prepaid for these bars.  They took money in and pre-sold bars they did not have in inventory after representing that they did have them in inventory.

While this part of the story is extremely interesting and everyone needs to be careful about sending money to any online bullion dealer – especially after the collapse of Tulving and the very recent collapse of Bullion Direct – the more interesting part of this story is the RCM suspension of production and sales of the 10-oz bar.

Why has the Royal Canadian Mint suspended production of a silver product that has a lot of demand but they have not suspended production – yet – of silver maple leafs? Because suspension of 10 oz bars doesn’t make news but suspension of 1 oz maple leafs does make news.  They stopped the bars because they can’t get ahold of enough refined silver to make both.

There were no news announcements like there would have been if the RCM had suspended sales of maple leafs.  The only reason I knew about this is because Provident defaulted on delivering the bars to prepaid customers.

This gets to more serious issue.   At some point there is going to be a severe shortage of available silver in all forms.  Bill Murphy’s source in London is right when he warned about rumors circulating around LBMA traders that there was going to be a serious shortage of silver at refiners this fall.

Retail demand is starting to go parabolic.  APMEX today sold 100,000 silver eagles in 5 hours.  They have announced on their website that they are out of stock of the “random year” 1 oz silver eagle coin product – click to enlarge:

APMEX

My bet is that the U.S. and Canadian Governments have directed their mints to do whatever is necessary to keep producing silver eagles and silver maple leafs. But they will not be able to contain the wave of demand for gold and silver at the retail level:

Bullion coin sales soared for a second month in a row, U.S. Mint figures for July show, with American Gold Eagles the highest in 2-1/4 years and American Silver Eagles the best since January despite a nearly 3-week suspension in sales.   CoinNews.net

Not only that, but India’s demand for gold is accelerating as we enter India’s largest buying seasonal buying period in a couple weeks: Gold imports up 61% at 155 tonnes in April-May – LINK

And we know that deliveries of gold into the Shanghai Gold Exchange is starting to go parabolic (see my post from August 6th – LINK).

The manipulation of the price of gold and silver is starting to show serious unintended consequences. There is a serious shortage of available bullion coming at us and the first sign of this is the email notice above my friend received today.

As I told my buddy:  from here on out, if you want to make 100% sure that you will get the bullion you pay for, take the $150 you should be getting back from Provident and go to a local coin dealer with cash and buy from him. At least you will have the bullion in your pocket at the same time you tender payment.

42 thoughts on “Provident Metals Defaults On Delivery Of RCM 10 oz. Bars

  1. Well…I’ve used Provident for several years without a hitch. They always take a while for checks. Sometimes 3-4 weeks which irritates the hell out of me, but they have the lowest premiums. Right now, I have an order in with Provident for generic goat and sheep bars / rounds. I also have an order in for Royal Canadian 1oz Cougars. I’ll let you know if things get dicey.

    1. I have used Provident quite a bit and have never had any issues. Their wait sometimes seems a little long but it is what is stated on their website. I think their email message is what I would like to get under the circumstances described. Presently their website shows out of stock and they are not taking orders for the bars. I also checked a couple of other dealers sites and they were out of the bars and not taking orders also. Incidentally, I am not a newbie in this game and have bought from several dealers including TPM, JPM, Gainesville, and yes, even Tulving and I have never had any issues with any of them. I do keep an eye on the dealer reviews to try to get a heads up if things are starting to go south with a dealer, but I feel that the RCM 10 ounce bars situation is a comment on the mints constraints. I have some of those bars and in my opinion, they really are the prettiest 10 ounce bars out there.

      1. Yep. I placed millions of dollars of orders with Tulving and never had one issue. But they blew up when they started taking money for metal they didn’t have. That’s what Provident did in this case and now I know of several who had this issue.

        I have been doing this sector for 15 years and have been involved in the financial markets for over 30 years. There will be several precious metals dealers that blow up before this is over.

  2. I have over ninety orders with provident, and have never had one issue. I am inclined to give them the benefit of the doubt. Did your buddy get a refund?

  3. Dave, you’ve been on fire with your writings. It’s tragic with what’s about to happen but you and Rory have been doing a heck of a job. Your every bit as good as Bill Holter and that’s high praise. Keep stacking.

      1. Agreed ….. Dave seems realizes the true lynch-pin to Gold price manipulation is the massive increase in the Gold supply via phony paper Gold ….. Holter and most other guru’s on the other hand don’t quite seem to grasp how the fundamentals of supply & demand have been illegally gamed by the out of control issuance of Paper Gold and Paper Silver …. many of the other guru’s are under the impression that we still have true functioning markets & with real price discovery.

        1. Which is an instant giveaway that you have no clue what you’re talking about, or are an intentional cognitive dissonance troll. Or both. Bill Holter’s long track record through 3 phases of his career (GATA, Miles Franklin & now Jim Sinclair’s jsmineset) is available for anyone in public domain to examine. There hasn’t been a more consistent & saner voice for such a long time than Bill Holter in the precious metals community about evil fraud of paper “metal” price discovery.

          Do better research next time before spouting off gibberish.

          1. Bill H is one of my favourites but he does have a few quirks that make me hesitate to believe him outright. First, he seems to think that the various western central banks and countries act independently of each other, and in competition. IMO there are really no individual countries in the western world, they all operate under the same centralized control and any public disharmony between them is pure theatrics.

            Two, he seems to actually believe numbers in the COT reports etc. IMO they mean little to nothing.

            Third, he predicted the system would be down by Jan 2015. Well here we are, still going. I don’t fault him for not knowing when it will end, after all who knows, but I fault him for putting forth a prediction, especially since it was based on CME numbers. As if those numbers are going to be allowed to reveal an imminent collapse!!! They will be cooked long before that happens.

            Just like Jiim Sinclair, the supposed godfather of the gold movement. He predicted that when gold hit $1650 it would be off to the races and never look back. That was 4 years ago and look what gold did. I don’t fault him for his prediction, but we need to be careful not to place more faith in analysts than they deserve. Despite what everyone said at the time, Sinclair was / is not an expert on the gold market and DOES NOT understand how it works, otherwise he wouldn’t have made such a poor call. Again, I’m not criticizing him for this since only a few central bankers have access to the real information. But analysts should refrain from making such bold predictions when they know very well that the information they are basing them on is suspect and likely totally made up. That’s why I like Dave K since he seems to take everything with a grain of salt.

  4. Excellent analysis, Dave. I’m also seeing premiums rise in the sites of other notable bullion retailers, and this includes shipping costs (which have risen as well). If Bill Murphy’s source is right, most will soon be wondering why the hell we built so many @&!$(# homes, cars, gadgets and crap that we suddenly can source one of the most useful metals known to man.

    Meanwhile, the surplus of trolls who say, “But I can buy silver anywhere, so there can’t be a shortage!” is also going parabolic. For the life of me, I’ve never seen so many cockroaches come out of the woodwork just to kick the metals when they are down.

    1. Some of them may be paid government or paid bank trolls. Edward Snowden revealed in his leaks the government has paid trolls to comment underneath many articles on popular news and financial websites.

      1. Apparently the Canadian government has been caught doing this, “rectifying public opinion” in online newspaper comments.

  5. The one thing in this world that is as valuable, if not more valuable, than gold and silver is TRUST.

    When trust is gone it is game over forever. Think about it, you can’t stay in business if your customers don’t trust you, marriages fall apart if one spouse loses trust in the other, the US Government is committing suicide by destroying its trustworthiness inside and outside the nation.

    Thank you Dave for providing these stories, news, stock picks etc. It is great beyond words having you as a source of trustworthy information, this site is an oasis of trust in a world where trust is used as toilet paper by the MSM.

  6. Apmex sold 100k of silver eagles today b/c they had a 5 hour flash sale at spot +$3. Sadly, that is considered a ‘bargain’ in our bizaro world.

  7. Dave, I too ordered some RCM 10 oz bars and received the same message today:

    The Royal Canadian Mint has suspended RCM 10 oz Silver bar sales indefinitely. Due to a sudden surge in demand for RCM products, there has been an unforeseen production and allocation error by the Royal Canadian Mint. We will not be receiving our shipment of RCM 10 oz Silver bars. This coupled with an internal inventory discrepancy has effected a few of our customer orders. We have been working diligently each day to secure RCM bars through various sources for our customers at any cost. Unfortunately, we were unable to fulfill some orders, including yours.

    Trying to get my *&$%#@ money back now.

    Not sure if you could, but would be interesting to see how many people were affected

  8. Earlier this week I purchased some junk silver pre-1960 coins from a respected US dealer online. I wired the money down and they got it right away and now I am just waiting for the order to get shipped, it’s been a few days, not sure what the delay is. Hopefully things will come together next week, I’ll keep you updated.

  9. My local coin shops haven’t had any government issue or one ounce rounds or higher recently and were sold out last week of all silver…. I swung by yesterday and they had 90% silver US coins that they just received. I loaded up on pre 64 dimes and quarters. But hey….. lol they also have plenty of collectible baseball cards lol. I decided to pass on that and just stick to my bullion. Paid 13 times face this time. Premiums went up a little bit. last time they wanted 12.5 times face value. Good luck gentlement! were in some serious shit! ….. We deffinitely live in interesting times….. Go night guys

  10. Also:


    These are now sold out at the mint, no more are being produced as Johnson Matthey’s refining business has been sold.”

    http://www.jmbullion.com/1-kilogram-johnson-matthey-silver-bar/

    Interesting to look at the high premiums over spot and the amount of “in stock August 17th” or similar… I don’t recall this back when silver dipped down to around $12 or so, this times does seem different. The whole feeling seems tense, I am even getting questions from people who don’t own/won’t own metals about the pricing and it seems that even they are wondering what is going on, something is not making sense for them.

    beep beep

  11. Oh yea its getting really tight out there. Can echo your comments on how tight. I have been cherry picking APMEX’s sales on Constitutional Roosevelt dimes off and on for the past year. Last buy was $1.79 over spot with free shipping spot was in low $16’s landed at $18.
    Yesterday they went OOS at $6.49 over $21.44. Nothing left but some BU at higher. Its pretty much the same across all the providers saw Doc was at $9.99 over on Kennedy’s. I probably have about 1/3 of my silver in pre 64 mostly bought when premiums were flat to negative. My how things have changed… These premiums for this pre 64 has got to be putting even more pressure on the freshly minted. Last couple of buys were Maples at $1.99 over Doc’s. Now over $3.69.

    Doc has been forcing sign off for delayed ships for a couple of weeks……

    Keep Stacking its coming….

  12. My friend responded when I sent him Kranzler’s RCM bar shortage story yesterday that he found plenty of RCM bars for sale on ebay with little premiums. He said it was dealers selling and not just secondary market reselling. How would you explain the discrepancy?

      1. I second that. There are some excellent fakes out there. Know your seller.

        My dealer uses some sort of special sensor which alerts one to fake gold. He’s come across four gold eagles that were fakes and he said they were quite good. One can buy the fakes in lots of 1,000 from China.

    1. The raw natural Placer Gold in small increments sells on eBay for quite a high premium over spot … if I was a Gold Miner I’d be selling alot of my raw natural Gold on eBay instead of melting it down and selling to COMEX Agents at a cheap price so they can cover their short sales.

  13. My last order with Provident was awful. Took 3 weeks to get my order using echeck. Using echeck with JM Bullion usually is a 3 day turnaround. It was for a roll of the new High Relief Grand Canyons. Makes me think they were just taking preorders, even though they were listed in stock. I’m done with them. When I order through Apmex, MCM or other online dealers. I always use PayPal. That extra 3% could be a lifesaver. Not only does it usually ship quickly. You have somewhere to turn if things go south. I had a horrible transaction with Silvertowne a few months ago. Fortunately it was on eBay using PayPal. UPS lost my $2K package. Rather than ship priority or UPS 2nd day. They cheapest out & shipped it ground. Anyway, it was lost for almost a month. EBay no delivery case was already opened. Silvertowne refused to reship. Literally on the day that eBay was going to fully refund me. The package of spot buffalo rounds showed up. If I had paid by check on their website. I know I’d be out of luck. Only place that gets my check is JMB. They’ve proven that they are the best. Otherwise it’s eBay deals or PayPal only. Provident & Silvertowne are on the permanent blacklist.

    1. I’ve bought from a lot of sources and I like JM Bullion the best. The price you see is the price delivered to your door. Silver Doctors charges credit card fees and shipping and tries to hide it in a deceiving way. JM bullion has been great to me. Better then all other online retailers. No bullshit. What you see is what you pay. However,… nothing beats buying from your local coin shop. Overall cheaper! But if you have to order thru an online retailer JM Bullion is your best bet. I occassionaly buy from them when they have a blowout special. The doc is claiming to have a silver eagle ‘blowout’ for 3.29 at any quantity for coins he doesn’t even have!!!!! With a disclaimer that they won’t be shipped until mid to late September. What kind of shit is that?

  14. After I got into an argument with the local coin dealer today about silver going to $500 and how I’m reading too many conspiracy theories, how there’s tons of silver available, how the Trail mine produces 200,000 oz A MONTH!!!! (umm, Austin Powers, that’s not very much money anymore), and how the RCM doesn’t actually offer silver bars, only coins,I went to the RCM website and indeed they claim to sell them, however, that is the only mention of them. They are mysteriously absent from the products listings and there is no price or availability listed anywhere despite this page which says they sell them. Same with the 100oz bar.

    http://www.mint.ca/store/content/bullionProductDetails.jsp?itemId=prod2160012&cat=Products&nId=7400002&parentnId=1300002&nodeGroup=

  15. I placed 2 orders with Provident a couple of years ago. Neither was shipped until nearly a month after they received my check. Both were for items advertised as being in stock when I ordered them and continually thereafter. When I called to ask about the delay in shipping, I was told it was due to delays in receiving shipments from their suppliers and that “in stock” is the same as anticipating delivery from suppliers. That was a red flag and I haven’t dealt with Provident since.

  16. Everyone is on the hunt for silver,does the name hunt @ brothers ring a bell?
    So far ive placed 2 orders with provident, first was at the door in 5 days, the 2nd one was just placed, and is now in shipping. I MADE THIS ORDER AFTER I found out the issue with supply and demand, anyone who deals in silver BULLION is doing it to make money, AND RIGHT NOW the over spot price is just gouging, but if you want the metal you play the game. ONE OF THE DEALERS I WENT TO TO BUY SILVER was asking 20.00 for a buffulo round and spot was 14.18 you do the numbers. and when i told them i just bought 5 10 oz bars they said is it real. Such horse shit is spreading love this fourm thanks

  17. Backed out of buying any more from Bul;lion Direct in June when it took too long to get a simple order filled — apparently just before they filed bankruptcy. Provident has been great and filled all orders of coins, bars and rounds without a hitch. I agree with the caution against ebay shopping. Haven’t been burned but came close. Buyer beware no matter what.

  18. I purchase from provident once a month. Silver eagles one month and opm or provident bullion rounds another. I haven’t had a single hiccup. But I also pay via credit card (debit) and thus pay the higher cost. I always recommend provident as they are cheaper than most bullion sites and have always been fairly quick for shipping.

  19. I’ve ordered from the over a dozen times via check in significantly higher amounts, I’ve never had a problem. Never. They have been and continue to be my best resource in silver purchases.

  20. I feel what you are saying and not completely surprised on what Provident Metals is doing. I myself had a problem with Provident. I paid with a check for a pre sale item. After my money cleared the bank I waited after the pre sale date that the items were expected to be received by Provident. After complaining about where is my order waiting 20 days.

    The girl on the phone said that the pre sale item date was changed. The first rep blamed it on the mint then the 2nd rep blamed it on PCGS grading was delayed. At this point I didn’t know what to believe. They offered me a refund but I refused. I said to the rep oh no ! Your going to honor this deal. I was offered a $10 dollar credit and told the rep that was still not acceptable. I asked for expedited shipping on my order and they gave me 2nd day shipping.

    They did try to make an effort to make me happy but the story does not end. I finally get my 6 SP70 coins, then noticed a spot mark on one of the coins, not a milk spot but some kind of pigmentation mark on the coin. I called Provident Metals and complained about the coin and wanted a replacement with a free return shipping label. They refused to give me a shipping label. I told them it was their policy to provide a shipping label on a numismatic coin.

    Then they had the nerve to say to me that a PCGS SP70 coin graded by PCGS was not a numismatic coin. They only made 5,200 of these coins. Then they demanded that I send them a picture of the coin with the spot on it. So I took pics using my iPhone and sent it to them. Then I get a response saying that they didn’t believe that the spot on the coin was significant for me to return it. I called the supervisor up and told in that I have been buying and selling coins for over 30 years and that it is significant cause of that spot on the coin. I told him in the coin world condition is key.

    Then was advised that the coin is guaranteed by PCGS and I told him that it’s not guaranteed if they believe that the spot occurred after grading. Finally the supervisor said that I was right and would exchange the coin but still refused a free shipping label. I said to him if this coin is not a numismatic at a grade of SP70 and only 5,200 were minted and I paid 3 times the price on a none numismatic coin then how can you say it’s not a numismatic coin? They just didn’t want to pay the shipping plain and simple and I’m not happy about it.

    I do believe that Provident Metals don’t have everything that they advertise in stock. They are cheaper than most people, but I think they don’t have a many people in their shipping department to handle and meet up with the high demand for their products.

  21. Ok since this thread is still going, here’s an update. Provident has fixed all of their fulfillment issues it seems. Gave them another shot & my large order shipped the same week. They switched echeck processor a few months ago. Silvertowne still sucks a million cocks. I placed an order on their website over 2 weeks ago. Was for an exclusive gold slab product. Still no shipping & only excuses when I call. Payment posted 10 days ago. Used credit card. I’m about to call my bank for my first chargeback ever. Avoid Silvertowne at all costs!

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